The army, or the list?

So this post is inspired by the FtW round table discussion:
What came first, the army or the list?

Prompted by: .....guy is just starting 40k. He's got the Codex and rulebook... and here's his question:
Specifically I'm wondering: once I get the whole modeling and painting thing down pat, should I just grab models willy-nilly (with at least an idea of what an army should contain) and then cobble together a list from what I have, or should I first make up a real army list and then buy models accordingly?


Funnily enough, I got the email about this just a few hours after I posted this, which gives some of my motivations for how I am going to build my army. Below is a longer discourse based on the email that I submitted for the round-table. I don't promise it'll be coherent, my mind is usually a bit of a jumble at the best of times, but here it is anyway:

Unless all you care about is winning games (and that certainly isn't the be all and end all of this hobby), then collect and paint the models that you like the most.
Seriously, if all you care about is playing and winning the games, then you are much better off with a game that supplies all the models pre-painted for you, or in differing colours of plastic (like the old Space Hulk used to). This hobby is so much more than the games, the painting of your models, personalisation and story of your army is so important to making the games that you do play much more real and involving and lifting it above other games that are similar. If it wasn't for that, there wouldn't be half as many games as everyone would be fielding the same 5 or 6 armies.

...collect and paint the models that you like the most. You will enjoy painting all the more (and you'll likely spend a heck of a lot of time doing that) and when you game, you'll have the added benefit of seeing models that you really like the look of marching across the table.
If you are anything like me, the painting takes up a lot of your hobby time. Just applying a base colour, and a couple of contrast colours to a model can involve a good few hours, and that is before you get into shading, highlighting and basing the models (yes I really can be a slow painter). Are you really going to enjoy that if you don't like the model you are painting, but are doing so just so that it can be in your army? Probably not. I think I would much rather have a slightly weaker character or unit on the field if I am going to enjoy painting it more, at least that way I can enjoy the painting and the gaming. You'll enjoy gaming with an army that you love the look of, and have enjoyed the painting of far more, and it'll just make the spectacle of all those futuristic warriors marching across a distant world to annihilate their enemy far more impressive.

It'll also add more of a challenge and a greater sense of satisfaction when you win games with an army designed for its look rather than just to be the ultimate killing machine for that race.
This alludes to my first point. If we only chose our armies for their ability, then we would find only a few army combinations out there, everyone would have one of them, and the hobby would soon become a bit boring. Where is the challenge of beating an opponent with a force that is picked solely to be the most killing force you can imagine. The real challenge (and why I think GW says you should pick your army before your mission) is being flexible enough to achieve your goals with the force you have. Think about the moves you make on the gaming table, use units in roles that you hadn't previously envisaged for them, stretch your ability and you will learn far more about the game and your abilities than stomping all over your opponent with a super-force. In fact, you will almost certainly learn more in a game that you lose than in one you win, and as you learn, soon you'll be winning as well.

So for me, the army very definitely comes before the list.
Pick and paint the units and models you like the most. Keep a rough idea of the army that you would like to build, even if that is in the form of the back-story and the motivations for your force, but enjoy all the aspects of the hobby, especially the spectacle of it all.


Of course, I'm sure there will be those who disagree with me, but that is what makes life fun, and keeps things interesting. Thoughts???

really amazing

Just a very quick post, but for anyone that stumbles across this, you HAVE to go and have a look at this. This is far and away the best themed army I think I have ever seen, and possibly the best army full stop.

Quick post to acknowledge my new avatar which I intend to become my avatar across 40K related sites.

I found it here as a pesky BA and so decided to do a little work on it to convert it to a Space Wolf. Note the company badge on the shoulder pad, this will be becoming the company badge of all my Space Wolves to go along with some background that I'm in the process of concocting (its also why there'll be plenty of ligthning claws in my army if I can manage it).

Space Wolves outline force

Sorry there hasn't been too much activity, its been busy and other than a bit of modelling on some more of my Tau, no painting has been done. I have been considering though, and as I'll soon be moving back closer to home, and will have access to all my models again, wondering where to go next. I'd love to get a couple of armies together so that I can start to play the odd game when I get a chance, so in that vain, I'm hoping to get a Necron battleforce, Commander and a Heavy Destroyer that I can paint up pretty quick and have an (almost) instant 750pt army.

I've also been looking forward to digging out all those old models that I never got painted and getting on with them, to that end, and because I really want to have a go at painting up my old Blood Claws (the metal ones) models, I've tried to put together a small but flexible army based on a single HQ choice for the Space Wolves. What I have come up with so far is:

HQ:

Wolf Guard Battle Leader

Terminator armour, storm bolter, lightning claw, runic charm and wolf-tooth necklace

98pts

Troop 1 (for lower armoured targets):

6 x Grey Hunters

Flamer, power weapon and 5 x bolters

Razorback with extra armour and smoke launchers

201pts

Troop 2 (for higher armoured targets/vehicles):

6 x Grey Hunters

Melta-gun, power weapon, power fist, plasma pistol and 4 x bolters

Razorback with lascannons, extra armour and smoke launchers

249pts

Troop 3

9 x Blood Claws

Flamer, power fist and power weapon

Rhino with extra armour and smoke launchers

210pts

Total points: 758pts

I'm hoping that this will give me enough flexibility to deal with most opponents, and from what I understand of the newer codex systems, it should be legal for games. What do you think, would it even stand a chance in games? I'm a pretty slow painter, and don't get all that much time, so this alone is likely to take me most of a year to put together, if I'm lucky. I'll see if I can get any more pics up soon of my ongoing work.

Tau WIP

So over the weekend I found an hour here and there to get in some more cleaning up of my tau and a little painting, I've now got a shas'eil o'neil or whatever the Tau call the commanders of their squads (he's the one with the bare head, I'm stuck in that old-school marine groove). To tie him into the whole unit, but also to distinguish him (apart from the head thing, as I may give in and give another couple bare heads) I've added a bit more yellow to his outfit to set him apart, especially in his thigh plates and the large shoulder pad, I'm sure it'll look better when he is surrounded by his troops. I've also got one guy I'm modelling to look like a spotter for the squad (he's crouched down with the scanner), and a couple of guys with rifles:

You'll probably be able to see the modelling I did on the spotter model, I used the grenade arm from one of the sprues and carved away the grenade to get something resembling and outstretched finger, the commander model had a little alteration to the left wrist so that I could get him carrying his gun as he throws his grenade.

On another note, for those of you in the UK, it must be gutting if you've just made any large purchases as the site has just dropped all its prices thanks to the UK government reducing VAT by 2.5%, my comiserations to you all.